EP18 - Children Are Our Future

In this episode of 'The Family Ties,' co-hosts Frank Abdul Shahid and Farida Abdul Tawwad Brown explore the essence of childhood innocence and its critical role in societal development. They discuss the emotional and intellectual growth of children, the necessity of protective community structures, and the impact of moral and social frameworks on ensuring a bright future for the next generation. Key topics include the moral responsibility to maintain the innocence of children, the role of family and community institutions in supporting children’s dreams, the consequences of societal perversions on the young, and the significance of good manners and civility. The discussion also touches on real-world tragedies such as school shootings to illustrate the urgent need for better community and educational support systems.

00:00 Welcome to The Family Ties Podcast
01:34 Reflecting on Childhood Innocence
07:01 Challenges in Education and Society
12:13 The Role of Family and Community
21:54 Innocence and Perversion in Modern Society
52:32 The Importance of Good Manners and Civility
54:37 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

This podcast is about family life as a means to address current problems in American society. A scripture based African American perspective. 

Welcome to The Family Ties, a Prescription for Society.
Through this experience we invite you to join us in an exploration of the concept of family ties as a prescription for society.
 
YOUR HOSTS:  Frank Abdul Shaheed &
 Faridah Abdul-Tawwab Brown
 
This episode was edited by Darryl D Anderson of AMG - Ambassador Media Group visit https://www.ambassador-mediagroup.com/
__________________________________
Music Credit
Back Home by Ghostrifter Official | https://soundcloud.com/ghostrifter-official
Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com
Creative Commons / Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0)
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

Copyright 2024

Transcript

Frank: 0:15

Peace be upon the family, as we welcome you to another experience of The Family Ties, a prescription for society. I am your co host, Frank Abdul Shahid.

Faridah: 0:26

And I am your co host, Farida Abdul Tawad Brown. Before we get started, don't forget to subscribe so you can stay up to date and get all the latest episodes.

Frank: 0:36

So welcome back to another episode of this wonderful podcast known as the family ties, the prescription for society. And yes, indeed, we believe that there is a prescription for the ills of society and there are the family ties. So far to my esteemed cohost. Welcome back.

Faridah: 0:56

Thank you. It's great to be back here with you again.

Frank: 1:00

So as we have been recording and uploading and presenting to our wonderful esteemed audience and dignified audience. The many episodes that we have been able to record and share with this wonderful audience just wanted to get a little bit of feedback from you and the feedback that I want is something very specific. So when we began this journey on this wonderful podcast that we created we had a design and we had a dream and we had a future for it. We had an aim and a destiny for this. Oftentimes in our innocence. I see children and I see children with that same level of innocence, just innocence in their life, and they go about their lives, just back and forth in and out with no care in the world, except what's the very next thing that they want to do. And oftentimes they might not know what the next step is or the next thing that they want. They're just stimulated by their environment. But when you sit down and just look at a child and just have a conversation with the child and you, you talk to them and you let them tell you exactly. What it is that they want to do, you know, if they just kind of just go on and on and on and on and on, and it's, and you're, and you're smiling, thinking, well, you know what, you have the possibility to do all of those great things, but in reality, in reality, you know, do we believe that we have the structures in place? Do we have the material resources in place? Do we have the community development in place? Do we have all of the necessary. Opportunities in place for a child with those bright illuminated eyes, with these great ideas, with this great ball of energy to have these things done and to come into life. Do we have everything that we need that at the end of their life, they still have that same brightness in their eyes? That same excitement in their voice, that same level of energy to be able to know that they've come to the fruition and the fulfillment of those wonderful dreams that they had as a child. Do you think we have all of that in place? Currently.

Faridah: 3:18

Whew. That, that is a, that's a heavy question. You know I, I listened to you, you know, describe the wonder, the, the shining eyes, the, the hearts and the minds full, the elasticity of their brains that are full of, of, of possibility and prospects for themselves. I, I think, you know, to my own children and my nephew, I remember, you know, my, my daughter and my nephew when they were very young children and I. And I homeschooled them together. And I remember taking walks through the, you know, wooded paths and going to the, you know, state parks and you know, they'd walk on logs and turn over rocks. And I was seeing everything through their eyes. This was, I mean, the absolute privilege of being able to witness the world. through the, the curious and hopeful eyes of, of children is, it's a privilege. And it's also it's something that keeps you attuned to the fact that our future lies within them because they have the ability to see the world and it's all of its possibilities, right? I think, so when you say that, I think about my two of my children One of whom would like to be a either a pediatrician or a veterinarian. She can't decide between humans or animals. Mm-Hmm. And the other she she, she loves language. You know, she wants to study languages. You know, she wants to study the language of scripture, but she also wants to study other languages just to converse and understand more about humanity. And they see those possibilities for themselves as if they can absolutely come true. And what. Her father and I do, my husband and I do, we stay awake, you know. working hard to make sure that we're putting structures in place that those dreams can be realized. We realize that we're like the skeleton for the flesh of their dreams. You know, I remember the Langston Hughes poem that we referenced a few episodes ago, you know, of what happens to a dream deferred and that, That dream, that hope in the Quran, in the scripture of the Muslims, there's a term called Milat. And it's, it's related to Abraham and it's, it's the, the hope of Abraham. Sometimes it's translated even as the way, and that's, that's what I think of when I think of. our children and their hopes and dreams. That's a pathway. And it's a pathway that we, as the leaders in their life, their parents are the leader, offer leadership. And then, you know, these concentric circles of of care and concern, we offer leadership to secure those pathways, this way of looking at the world that sees what's going on. possibility that as they grow older, you know, those bones will become more rigid as they give more form to their dreams. And so they'll realize that there are certain things that have to happen in a certain way, but always maintaining the flesh, the meatiness, the hopefulness of that, that possibility for human life.

Frank: 6:22

Yes.

Faridah: 6:22

But I mentioned my husband and I, because I think that we are working very hard and we're working together to try to ensure the dreams of our. our daughters, but we can't do it. We're doing that with the help of our parents, our siblings, our extended network of family and friends, because we realized their dreams are not going to be realized by what their parents alone can provide. It requires a community of people working to secure the, as you said, the institutions that are necessary to give those, those dreams a form and a structure. And sadly, when I think about the larger picture for the children of the world, but particularly the children of America and then African American children in particular, I I am, I see that we have abandoned the moral responsibility to establish that infrastructure. I think about it in the light of these recent tragedies that we have here in the United States of America. In Winder, Georgia, there was a recent school shooting where four precious human beings lost their lives, two teachers and two precious young children, young adults. to adolescents. I think they were either 14 or 15 years old, lost their lives senselessly at the hands of a 15 year old, a 14 or 15 year old student. Also elsewhere here in, in Maryland, Joppatown, Maryland, there was a shooting in the bathroom inside a school in Joppatown and a young man lost his life. And so when I consider these, I think of schools, our educational institutions, they are part of that infrastructure that helps our dreams are, that helps. to give form to the dreams and the hopes of the next generation. And what we're finding is that the young people have been influenced in a way and the institutions have become what's the best word to use? The institutions have become I guess disempowered is a word, but they've become impotent.

Frank: 8:42

I would say they don't have

Faridah: 8:44

the power. Okay. That, that's a good word. That that's that's go ahead and explain why you why you would use the word compromise, because I think we're on the same wavelength, but I'd like to hear that.

Frank: 8:56

Absolutely. So I use the term compromise because. There was a desire, there was a design for a particular effort, you know, and as I'm, I prefaced it with the child, you know, the child has an idea of what they want to do and in their mind, this is what their life should be for them as they take each step in no part of their thinking, do they even will even consider that something will get in the way of them attaining the goal that they want. But when something gets in the way of that, either it could develop something in the child to make the child more resilient to greater steps to attain it, or it could make the child decide that that's not the goal. And it makes me look at another goal. So it's not my own nature that's telling me that this isn't good. Something has come and influenced me to tell me that I should just look someplace else. And I'm using that, that influence to determine for me what is good versus my very own nature. So I think the school system in a lot of senses. Have lost it's it's way is lost. It's true effort and design for our Children. So thus, I would say it was compromised whether it was something that was done purposefully to take the Children away from the good nature or a diabolical plan was enacted and now has taken our Children away from them being them. Able to see their future come to fruition. So I think compromise in that sense can kind of go either way without indicting it on a whole as being such a bad thing. So I think compromise was a little bit more favorable.

Faridah: 10:40

Thank you for clarifying that. You know, I, I brought up those, this. senseless tragedies, you know, that, that we have become more and more commonplace in our country, in our nation. But I brought it up because we typically see the institution of, of the institutions of education, as complementary to the role of the family or the parents in the life of a child. So you're looking at, you know, the first teacher of the child is usually the mother. The first teachers are the parents, right? You have the mother and father, you have the womb or the culture of the family life of what the mother and father together with the, you know, grandparents and others are providing and modeling for. the young people. And then you, as parents, you know, not so much in the American public school context, you know you're choosing where your child goes. So for those of us who have the, you know, the privilege and the opportunity to homeschool or can afford private schooling, we're choosing what we think are the best environments for our children. For the vast majority of Americans, based on your geographical location, you have an, you know, a school that your child is geographically zoned for. And therefore the choice would have to come in where you decide to to live, right? So a lot of parents are making that decision as well. And that's, that's based on where they're choosing to live so that they can choose a particular school system. But I brought that up to say that if the schools themselves are compromised, then that is because that that is a secondary institution for the support of our children's dreams, for the securing of these pathways to recognition and realization of their hopes and possibilities for themselves, then we have to look at what that's pointing us to. And it's pointing us to the fact that the primary. The primary incubator for the life of the child, for securing the child's interest and well being in the society, something must be compromised in that institution as well. And I think that's very pertinent to our discussion here on the family ties, because we're bringing the conversation right back around to this, the centrality, the uniqueness of the family institution. As a tradition, I think I would venture to say the oldest tradition in human, the human experience, which has shown itself to be over thousands of years of human existence, it has demonstrated itself to be the single Well, not the single most, but after you know, our, our witness and our allegiance to our creator, the institution of the family has shown itself demonstrated itself to be a critical factor for success of the human being. And so, To the extent that that institution, that tradition, that that has borne witness to its success, its success is witnessed by the history and the annals of human history, the extent to which it's compromised is something which we have to to look at with a moral eye.

Frank: 13:56

Yes.

Faridah: 13:56

And yeah, I think that's where we are right now when it comes to securing the interests of our children, their hopes and their dreams.

Frank: 14:03

I totally agree. And we'll get back to some of the points that you made specifically about, you know, the school settings and what's going on in the school. But there's a song that I want to, I want to reference really quickly. There are several songs actually, but this particular one just literally just popped in my mind. When I think of brightness in the eyes of a child, I don't think there is another child that I can recognize that has such brightness in their eyes, then the young man that we've come to know as Michael Jackson. So when Michael Jackson was very young with the Jackson 5, and he's, 10, 11, 12. And you see this child command a stage like an adult. The look in Michael Jackson's eyes was so bright and it just, just nothing was going to stop this guy. He was just, just an amazing human. He was, we were definitely blessed to have him as, as part of our cultural expressions, part of our expression as, as humans. But I look at his eyes and just see how bright Michael Jackson's eyes were when he was much, much younger, but he had a, he had a song called with the child's heart and it talked about the heart of a child and part of the lyrics go with a child's heart, go face the worries of the day with the child's heart, turn each problem into play, no need to worry. No need to fear just being alive makes it all so very clear with the child heart. Nothing can ever get you down with the child heart. You've got no reason to frown. And if you watch Children whatever setbacks that they have and in an instant, they're back to the, to the good, bright and humorous nature of a innocence of a child. You could take something away from a child. You can discipline the child. You can do all these things to a child and you can see them disturbed, but almost instantaneously, they're back. Through that purity of an innocence of a child looking at you again with that desire of, Hey, I completely trust you. I completely put my faith in in you and, and I, and I expect you to take me to the destiny. Like they have that, that look. So I referenced earlier about having that look in a child, but also having that same look in an in an elder, for them to not lose that. That innocence for them to not lose that brightness and the world beats them down so much that they lose the innocence of themselves and, and in far too many situations that we see today that our children are losing their innocence. And because they are losing the innocence, then they lose that determination to, to support and build structures and identify structures and command structures and to, to aid them into them, getting to their completion of what they want to be as, as adults, even if they don't even know what that is specifically, that nature is moving them to success. The nature is moving them to a conclusion. So having this brightness and innocence that has been warred upon and has taken many of our children away from us the innocence of the children away from us has been a, a detriment to society. And you can clearly see it. You can clearly see it. So that's Michael Jackson's with the child heart. And that's, I can just remember hearing that song and just. Listening to a child sing the song and who sounds like an adult, but he's probably the best represent representative of, of that song being articulated to, to our ears and to our heart as well. And of course, there's the other one, the greatest love of all. So what is your greatest love of all?

Faridah: 18:09

I, I'm, I'm almost still stuck in this reverie from the, the picture that the visual picture that was painted for me by the lyrics to that song, you know, that wonder the, the greatest love. I mean, let, let me just say this before I go to the, the greatest love, because I think it's, this is connected and, you know, I, I think a lot, I reflect a lot on the term family. Yeah. in the English language, you know it is, it's a term that almost all, almost every definition across Oxford, Merriam dictionary, what, you know, where Webster, almost every definition except for the more recent ones they, They include adults and children. Now you'll find more recent definitions of the word family and they, you know, they'll say something similar to having, you know, two or more P persons who you know, commit to supporting one another and loving one another. And it doesn't signify whether those people are adults, children. I guess they can be two adults, two or more adults. But so in, in the larger sense, you know, you can grow up, you know, my family are my siblings and my parents right now. And you know, and, and that could be all that you have and you're all adults at one point, but the, the, the, the true definition, the most basic definition of family in the English language always includes the children and adults. So when you speak to the lyrics of that song, And you, you ask the, the rhetorical question, you know, for not just for me, but for all of our listeners to contemplate really, really to go back and, and contemplate, reflect, think over this and then speak with your families and one another about this is the idea that the adult cannot maintain that sense of wonder without being in proximity to children. You know, you don't necessarily have to still be raising young children. You don't necessarily have to be a teacher, but you should exist within a family unit where children or, or a neighborhood context or a community context, or either, even within your religious community, you know, the life of your religious space, you know, whether it's your church or mosque, your synagogue, where children are welcome and children are visible and children are included. in the vision and the, the plans for the longevity of this of whatever institution it is, whether it's the family, a community, this, the religious community, anything of that nature, because children do represent the future. And so when you, you recounted the lyrics of this song, And I, you know, I remember I shared with you just a few minutes ago about, you know, how I got, had the opportunity and the privilege to see life, to see the world, to see the creation through the eyes of young children. And it was so remarkable. It was astounding. It was delightful. It's like the scientist when they discover something, you know, new. It's this, this sense of wonder and awe that has you as a Muslim saying, you know, that, that, that God is so perfect and so sublime and above everything that he has provided this reality and the ability for us to learn and grow and benefit from it. So why do I say that? When you speak of innocence. Innocence requires by its very nature, it requires protection. So if we don't understand and secure, first of all, the definition of family as adults who have the interest of children at heart and preserving those children's innocence. And when I say family, now we're of course, starting with the literal family unit, but also speaking to ultimately the family of man. So, The family of man is required to look at innocence among us and do it is morally required to do everything in our power to set up institutions that protect and secure the interests of the innocent. So that can't happen if we're not in proximity to one another. It can't happen if you don't know. what, who the innocents are, what they represent, what their needs are. The only way to find those things out is if you know, if you're in observing. And so I think one of the first problems is that we've kind of we've siloed different interests in our society. Let me give you one example and hopefully you can respond to this. And then maybe God willing, at some point I'll get back to the greatest love. But I say this because. We have a notion in the United States of America where we believe in the right to privacy, and we believe that as adults, that right to privacy entitles us the ability to, to take advantage of and enjoy things that may not be healthy even for us as adults. But because we are adults and we have the right to privacy, we're entitled to do those things, but we're doing them in a way that does not take into account the impact that those things have on the innocent. So, first of all, the first innocent is your own human soul. The human soul is an innocent entity that we are required to either purify or we allow it to be corrupted. And so that, that's something that, that the human being is responsible for. So in a sense, the human soul is an innocent entity that we have to protect. One's own self, that's an adult. But, but glaringly obvious is that the rights of children They are innocents. So if we have things like, let's say, cigarette smoking, we all know now the effects of secondhand smoke. So we say, as a mother or a father or an adult, I'm entitled to smoke my cigarette. It relieves, you know, it relieves my stress and my anxiety. You know, it may harm my body, but I'm an adult. I can deal with that. The fact of the matter though is that the secondhand smoke is almost as harmful to your children who are around you as it is to the smoker themselves. If you're living for an extended period of time in, you know, in the same home. In a similar manner, our, our addiction as a nation to pornography. is something that is similar. So we believe we have the right as adults that we are entitled to enjoy what we want to enjoy as adults without without anyone judging us or without anyone putting any restrictions or boundaries in place that would prevent the adults from enjoying it. But the fact of the matter is that the, the, the appetites that pornography induces in us have carryover effects. that harm children in our society. There's a growing it, it erases the, the sense of taboo of things being taboo and, and not acceptable. So the more and more people they, they engage in pornography, the, the greater the, the, their appetite grows for things that are, are more and more titillating. And that eventually leads some people to satisfying their, their, themselves with children, the rates of, of molestation and other things where children are harmed or trafficked, these things, and, and where children get their hands on this pornography, and they themselves are consuming it. But because we don't want to get rid of it in society in a way that would protect everyone, particularly the children. Why? Because it would encroach upon my right as an adult to enjoy what I want. So I think we're more as, as, as Americans, we are more committed. to our right to privacy, our right to enjoy those things we think that we should be able to enjoy as adults than we are to securing the interests of innocents. And that's how it begins. These are just examples of how we might sing, I believe the children are our future, teach them well and let them lead the way, show them all the beauty they possess inside. But quite honestly, we're not committed to that because we're not willing to do whatever it takes to secure their dreams and hopes.

Frank: 26:28

Very well said. Very well said. America itself was created as an experiment on freedom. So absolute freedom is the freedom of having all the I guess all of the access to the things that you ever wanted without any consequence. So, because you have no consequence for it, there is no context in which you can manage these freedoms. So, hey, it's my right, it's my, I'm an American, I can do what I want to do. I got my, I'm protected by the amendment, first amendment, freedom of this, second amendment, freedom of that. So, I can just incur on you all that I want to because I'm protected. But I'm looking at it in an individual sense, as you said, without it, looking at a community sense, my individual perversions have somehow influenced the innocence. It doesn't, my, my individual perversions does not protect the innocent. I, because I don't have a context on where to keep my perversions as much as the greater society is telling me that I should have my freedom to be as perverse as I want to be at one point, you know, you know, this is just the nature of man. This is in man's history that these things have challenged man from the beginning. But they were systems put in place to keep everything in check. But as we see in 2024, those systems are no longer there. It's everything is just out in the open now. And it's almost to the point where you aren't who you say you are, unless you publicly display. Your perversion and until I publicly do that, then I won't have rights to protect me in my perversion So and it's unfortunate and guess who suffers the children all the time, you know, we all suffer I just want to make that clear. We all suffer. I'm damaging myself with these perversions, but ultimately I'm not securing the future That's, that's not what I'm doing. I'm, I'm an individual. We're all individuals, but we don't have a context for our life until we meet others. And once we meet others, specifically creating this life of this family life, I meet a, I meet a woman or you meet a man. And now you, you realize that you two coming together now creates a whole nother existence for something. And you securing an existence for what children, because the children are the next level of development for that. So you go from the individual, then you go to the marriage. And then, then you go to the children, which creates the family. And from that, we build society upon that, upon that pattern. But if we don't look at it in that sense, and not looking at securing the children by giving them the ultimate protection, then ultimately society falls. And we see the products of that.

Faridah: 29:39

You know, two things that you just said you, you talked about children and children are our future. Children are also. our a symbol of our productivity. It's, it's there. What we produce is visible in our Children as a society, you know we may build tall buildings, but if we never have Children who grow up and can become materially independent enough to, you know, purchase a room in that hotel or, or work, you know, cultivate their intellect so that they could work in an office unit in that, that tall, you know, that skyscraper, then it's nothing, it's a shell. So children, we have to look at how are we producing? What are we I go back to the, the, the parable of a garden, you know at a gardens are used often in scripture as parables through which God teaches us or shows us important lessons about what it means to be human and how we are to construct our societies. And so when you look at the gardens, you know, they, they are enriched by the mercy and the guidance of the creator himself through things like rain that we do not control, you know, the, the excellence of the soil, which we can impact or influence in terms of how we treat the soil and things of that nature. But we have to think how much effort are we putting into the product of our lives together? of our, of our families together. How much are we, are we sowing into our children, into our future? And so that's something to really think about when you think about children and productivity and this idea of the garden and tillage and, and really sowing and working hard to make sure that the environment that they're in is most conducive to their healthy growth. The other thing I wanted to point out was your use of the term perversion. And I think it's important here because, you know, there are so many perversions that are prevalent today and like you pointed out, they are you know, we're actually beginning to identify ourselves by our perversions, you know, even, you know, we will, we will talk about even sometimes the perversions of our thoughts, you know, that, you know, set us apart and we'll, we'll, you know, Put this out into the public sphere, not that one should necessarily be ashamed if you struggle with mental health or, and I think it's healthy to have conversations about how our thoughts can be tortured or work against us and we need to have positive, but we celebrate. these perversions of thought, perversions of behavior, perversions of, of all manner of things in a manner that is not conducive to the idea, the understanding of the true picture of the human being. And I bring that up because one of the lyrics in the song that I just quoted, which, you know, I think many of our listening audience in our listening audience may be familiar with, and that is the greatest love. That was introduced to me recently as having been on the soundtrack of a film about Muhammad Ali sung by George Benson. I was not aware of that. I myself was only familiar with the Whitney Houston version, but you know, there's a

Frank: 33:00

Randy Watson version.

Faridah: 33:02

Randy Watson, Jackson Heights own, you may know him as Joe, the policeman from the what's going down episode. That's my mom. Put your hands together. But anyway, I digress. But you know, the, I think about the, the idea that in that song It says, teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside. So beauty, what they, the beauty they possess inside is an inheritance from their creator. It's a beautiful, excellent, natural pattern that was given to them by the one who made that individual child and the, the excellent pattern for all children across time. And so if we want to understand. the, that beauty, we have to understand it without perversion. We have to put the proper picture in front of our children to recognize that, to recognize what beauty is. I cannot overemphasize that point because today our children are being told to look at maybe a fleeting emotion and let that, their, their feeling of the day, or even a, an ongoing feeling that they may struggle with, but it's a feeling nonetheless, they will, they are being encouraged to take those feelings. and use them to describe what their true nature is, who they are as a human being. And I reject that. And I think every righteous human being has to reject that. Certainly every person of faith must reject that an individual whim or feeling can define the excellence of your human picture. We have been given beauty. We have been given an excellent human picture and it is in that symmetry. It's in the balance, the duality, the dual nature of life that God created everything in. That is where the beauty is. And we're told even in the lyrics of a pop culture song to show our children the beauty they possess inside. So I think that also goes to a piece of this our understanding of securing. These institutions and pathways for the innocent, you know, among us, particularly, you know, centering and focusing children.

Frank: 35:25

But it's wonderful. It's wonderful because we live in a very complex developmental environment. So things will be broad, things will be advanced in degrees in everything that we are in going through in life. So we'll never really come to the completion of anything because it's just another step to another form of completion. But I wanted to say something to respond back to what you said about you having the benefit of homeschooling your, your daughter and your nephew for a period. And you were seeing the world through their eyes. Were you not once a child? Did you see the world through a child's eyes and what may have been the structures or situations that may have taken us? Maybe innocently, or once again, maybe it was by design for us to lose that innocence and understanding that innocent as a child, but now have to be reinduced, reintroduced to it through other children to understand the seed, the world through their eyes, like what there has to have been a may have been a separation and the world is so confusing. The world is so big. The world is so busy. The world is so inviting. And, and we go into many, many endeavors not knowing. All of what we're stepping into, and that's just curiosity, and that's what the world invites us to invites us to explore the curiosity, but these are healthy curiosities that we have for us in our own development, so we would tend to. Expect, and unfortunately, I am prefacing with this tend we tend to expect when we should expect that the structures in our society are there to protect that natural curiosity, to bring that natural curiosity to its completion. That's what we should have now in, in the, in the neighborhoods that I'm seeing today. And this is inner city. This is rural. This is, this is America. There were a time where structures were so prevalent in our community that a lot of these perversions and a lot of these entrapments weren't, weren't available for our children. So our children went through our, through their day without having any influence. With any of these things, but yet they could literally be right next to it without having any influence because structures were built to protect them. What I'm seeing today are the removal of the structures. I don't think the perversions are any greater than they were before. What makes the perversion seem to be bigger in today's society is the lack of the structures being there because the perversions aren't bigger than the progressive structures. Institutions that could never be bigger than that. Society doesn't grow that way. But the lack of these progressive institutions, i. e. neighborly, neighborliness, i. e. charity, i. e. having goodwill for the person living next door to you, i. e. having a an idea of what you want your children to have and you fighting for those. Establishments. Those are are gone, which now all we see is the perversion. So now we think that is nothing there anymore, and it's not because the lack of these structures standing, protecting our Children from these perversions. So we mentioned once before. In the previous episode about technology, in a sense, and how technology now has full blown access to our Children in the way that it never had ever in our lifetime. Now, mind you, technology is, is just a medium. of information and a medium of influence, the influence has always been there, but it had to go through certain checks prior before it could reach a child where now it's just straight right on through. It's almost like I have an easy pass. You don't even have to pay the toll. Just go right on through and you get to your destination. So I see in a lot of these communities not having the structure, the structure there to protect our innocent our Children and ultimately. Our children are being picked off and their innocence are compromised and the ability is stifled and we no longer can see the world through a child's eyes because we've lost something in ourselves to have that sensitivity.

Faridah: 39:53

You know, I, I, I keep returning to the word you used earlier in the conversation, which is perversion and perversion is, is a distortion. It's an alteration of something from its original course. meaning or state to a distortion or corruption of what was first intended. And so to acknowledge a perversion means that you have to acknowledge that there was an intention and a purpose for a thing initially, that there was an intention for a thing. And I think for the human being, there is an intention by the human, by the creator of the human being of human, of, all creation, but in particular, we're addressing the human being right now. The creator had a plan, has a purpose, has an intention for the human being and human community. And so I thought what it was really important, what you said about, you know, the the, the natural curiosity. about having institutions or features of our institutions that help to promote that natural curiosity or help us to retain it even as we grow or move from childhood to adulthood. And I think I would, I think the important the curiosity is important, but the curiosity is afforded. I think that our, our, our natural, our curiosity is most peaked when there are there's as little distortion of the picture as possible because then we get the chance to observe, move things around, adjust, you know, we, we, we get the chance to take something in a state for which it was intended. And an experiment with that, you know, in a, in a very natural way. And I would say that I spent, I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts and in the Dorchester, in the middle of the city. But we spent all of our summers as Girl Scouts at Camp El Paso, Camp Favorite. These are camp Girl Scout camps in you know, rural New Hampshire on a lake or on Cape Cod, you know, on right, right by the by a lake on, on the, the Cape. And so these places were places that were free from the distortions of, of human creation. Not that all human creations are distortions of things. Much of human, what the human being creates are, is going into the natural material world and drawing benefit out of it. But the ex, but remember we said earlier that In scripture, we're given a picture of, of life, and we're told that life, all life is, is created in pairs. And so this immediately gives us a sense or an idea of balance, that there is a balance that is necessary for life to maintain. It's not only its forward trajectory, not only its productive trajectory, but it's a natural trajectory is to maintain the balance. And so, again, the, the technology in and of itself is not, a bad thing. What is what we have to evaluate the town, the technology by is how conducive it is to the human being remaining in a state that, allows their natural intellect to be piqued, that allows natural relationships to form, that allows the human being to be productive in every sense of the word, and the relationship with the creator, and the relationship with their family, their community, neighbors, community, as you mentioned, their neighborliness. Am I concerned? Does the, the construction of the institutions in my life, the way my family operates, the way my school operates, the way my place of my religious institutions operate, Do they operate in a way that I get to know my neighbors, that I'm concerned for what happens to them, that I set, that I willingly sacrifice basic comforts in order that no one goes without. There's a saying of the prophet Muhammad prayers of Allah and peace be upon him, where he talks about the Muslim. And I'm paraphrasing here, but the essence of this report is that the Muslim is the one who who cares for their neighbor, their neighbor doesn't go hungry while, while the Muslim is, is their neighbor. This means two things at least. One is that you have to be aware of the state of your neighbor. Right? In order to even know whether or not that neighbor is in need. And two, you have to be willing to sacrifice some of what you have. The prophet, peace be upon him, said that if you have enough for one, that's enough for two. So here we're talking about promoting a sense of selflessness. in just in, in everyday regular interactions. And if I'm so curious about how my neighbor is doing their wellbeing, I'm curious about the human state. So it's not just a curiosity about rocks and animals, but it's a curiosity about the human being. him or herself. So again, just that, that word perversion opens lots of doorways for us because it helps us to remember that there is a picture that we're supposed to have. It is the life, the best life that we're talking about drawing. our, our listeners back to a commitment to. We're inviting you listeners, not just to listen to this and think, well, how might this affect me and my family? Yes, that's the first stage, but the most important stage of this, the development of this podcast, this conversation that we're having with one another, and we hope we develop it even further with guests and, and speaking to some of you and, and really engaging people. beyond you know, just a comfortable space of a conversation is we have to start to think that we have a moral responsibility to call one another to the good life and their requirements as it has. It requires a discipline, but it is the good life is not your best life. It's not my best life. It's the best life

Frank: 45:52

and bringing it back to the child, the innocence of a child. If you. Ever watch a young, and I mean, very, very young child a toddler, perhaps when they see another toddler, toddler, they lock eyes with each other. And there's a sense between the two that there is a commonality. There's a, I want to know you, I want to know, like, look at you, look at me. Hey, we made it look at us, you know, as if they knew each other from a previous life or a previous time. And if you just leave them to themselves, you'll see the most general, the most generosity you'll ever see. Like they're not, they won't be stingy with each other. They'll hug each other. They'll show love to each other. It's the, the bonds are very natural between them. And seeing that, that is a sign for us adults. That is a sign for us who are responsible, who are sensitive to secure that. That is what we need to secure because in that is where we have our, our security and their security is our security. So if I'm looking for rights and privileges on my, for me, for my own person, once again, that doesn't do anything for anybody else, because it's an individualistic approach to something I'm an adult. This is what I want to do. I'm going to do it. I have support from the government. I have support from the laws. I have support from whatever. This is what I'm going to do. But oftentimes that infringes on, on, on me. So there's a phrase that many have. Used for many, many years, and it says good fences make good neighbors, which in a sense is a contradiction. What is suggesting is don't come in my space. And if you don't come in my space, then you are a good neighbor versus you inviting them into your space to get to know each other. And that's how you build strong societies. The invitation. It's a strong society. So if you watch the children, they invite each other, they don't have to necessarily motion with their hands to come and engage just to look in that, as I said, that clarity and that brightness of those eyes lock with each other. And that's the invitation. And that's the same, that's the same thing we see when a child is pulled from the womb and it's given to the mother and the mother looks at the child and the child opens his eyes and locks his eyes with his mother. That is a look that will remind the mother that I have already sacrificed once my life to bring you into existence. So I will now sacrifice my life again, to ensure that existence goes to its completion. And that is your life, young child. And that's our disposition. That's the disposition of a healthy society. And that's the disposition that America should get back to, to be a what? More perfect union,

Faridah: 49:06

amen and I mean I, I think to have that more perfect union I'll go back to something you said you said we have, we have legal supports for these selfish choices. We have societal support. You know, we have constitutional supports we have popular culture support. What we don't have for these choices is moral support.

Frank: 49:33

Yes, absolutely. And

Faridah: 49:35

so I, I think what we have to return to, I think there's no doubt about if we, if we accept that the family unit. And by family unit, I mean, of course, that you have the initial coming together, the committed coming together of the husband and wife, the father and mother, but none of that happens without the support of their parents and, and others, you know, within the community, that, that union doesn't even come together without two or three other parties to witness that union. You've got to sign a contract. You have to have witnesses to the contract. You have to have a priest or a preacher marrying, conducting a marital, a wedding, a marriage ceremony. You have to, so there are always within this, this unit of the family coming together, it's a necessity for there to be supportive structures and institutions to help make that a reality. What I think about in terms of this moral support is when we talk about the family ties and the family unit and the family itself being a remedy, a prescription for society. We're speaking about this in no less terms than that. This is about a moral movement. We, we are talking about returning to a covenant. with the one who made us, that the creator of all the worlds gave us a picture of ourselves, gave us a beauty, gave us an excellent balanced design, and then gave us a beautiful earth and heavens above it, a beautiful earth and heavens above it to actually make sure that we have everything we need to sustain such excellent life. You know, to sustain productive life and it does not, it's not a promise. This covenant is not a promise that we won't struggle. It's not a promise that there will not be difficulty. I think for all adults, those of us who have made it to adulthood, we recognize the necessity of struggle in order for us to birth the best. Versions of ourselves and the best versions of our families and our communities. As a matter of fact, the family itself acts as an incubator for developing our best selves. Because when you have to be as husband and wife, learn to put someone else's needs before your own. Learn to temper your idiosyncrasies so that someone else can be at peace. These are, these are difficult things to do when you're in a relationship. But you're forced to do them in the context of a union that has purpose and that produces. And even if that doesn't produce the human life of a child, whether a womb is barren or a man cannot produce, that you're still producing a life that the two coming together, they make a whole new unit. Yes. And so as we wrap up this conversation, you know, I, I just want to say, you said something earlier about Good fences make good neighbors. I would turn that on its head and go with the guidance that that scriptural guidance and and the guidance of Muhammad The prophet prayers of Allah and peace be upon him. I would say good manners make good neighbors not good fences Good manners.

Frank: 52:57

Good manners. Good morning, neighbor. Hey, neighbor, how are you today? I'm fine. You know, I can remember there was a time. Yeah.

Faridah: 53:06

Do you remember there was a, there was a, I live in, in Howard County, Maryland, and we had, there was a bumper sticker campaign for a few years ago and, and it said, choose civility. in Howard County. And it was so prevalent. And there were all these conversations in the libraries about civility. And that seems to have died off. The road rage is up. Nobody's really practicing civility anymore. I mean the, the whole, but, but this is a reminder. It's not just the purview of the Muslim. It's the purview of the Christian, of the Jew, of the good, you know, of, of all good human beings who want, to live in harmony with one another, that it's civility, good manners, caring, honest, sincere, caring about the other, as you reminded us with the toddlers, you know, so yeah,

Frank: 53:51

that's, that's, that's amazing. This topic and these issues that we have to tackle are nothing that we can't. Solve. There are nothing that we can't overcome and bring back to the correct focus. I can remember my grandmother's always say, just wipe your eyes and you know, you can see things a little better. And oftentimes that could be, we've got a little mud or something in our eyes, but you know, it's, it's something that's not too big for us to do. We're capable of fixing this. So, and I believe that this is a platform for us and for our listeners and for the world Who is listening as well, that this is a way for us to Remy remedy the issue because family is the prescription for society. Well, Farida, the praise is for God always we have moved one step closer to destination excellence.

Faridah: 54:45

Until next time, let us remain conscious of our creator of the sacred relationship of parent and child and of the family ties that bind us. Subscribe to the podcast and come back next time for a new episode of The Family Ties.

Frank: 55:00

From Frank Abdul Shahid

Faridah: 55:03

and Farida Abdul Tawab Brown.

Frank: 55:07

Peace be upon the family.