EP22 - A Man of 3 Generations

This episode discusses the concept of manhood and its evolution within the African American community. Featuring guests from their family—father Qasim Abdul Tawwab, brother Tariq Abdul Tawwab, and nephew Ihsaan Fanusie —the conversation delves into historical figures and movements such as the Nation of Islam, the civil rights movement, and the responsibilities of men in society. Guests share personal experiences and insights on fatherhood, the role of historical context, and how these shape their perspectives on legacy and community building. The episode emphasizes the importance of reestablishing family ties, creating pathways for new generations, and addressing societal barriers. It also critiques the dismissal of current generations as 'broken' and highlights the need to address challenges holistically and through legacy. The hosts invite guests to return for further discussions on these important themes.

00:00 Welcome to The Family Ties Podcast
00:45 Introducing Our Esteemed Guests
01:30 The Role of Men in Society
02:34 Defining Manhood and Fatherhood
04:31 Historical Examples of Men Uniting
06:30 Conversations with Our Guests
08:52 Reflections on Manhood and Legacy
10:47 Challenges and Barriers to Manhood
17:34 The Importance of Historical Context
20:29 Rebuilding Family Ties and Leadership
28:53 Reflecting on Historical Moments
29:37 The Role of FOI in Community Outreach
30:16 Challenges Facing Young Men Today
31:05 Legacy and Role Models
33:18 Addressing Brokenness in Society
37:46 The Importance of Family Ties
39:30 Passing Down Values to the Next Generation
44:57 Balancing Rehabilitation and Community Support
49:06 Invitation to Continue the Discussion
51:11 Closing Remarks and Future Invitations

This podcast is about family life as a means to address current problems in American society. A scripture based African American perspective. 

Welcome to The Family Ties, a Prescription for Society.
 Through this experience we invite you to join us in an exploration of the concept of family ties as a prescription for society.
 
 YOUR HOSTS:  Frank Abdul Shaheed &
 Faridah Abdul-Tawwab Brown
 
 This episode was edited by Darryl D Anderson of AMG - Ambassador Media Group visit https://www.ambassador-mediagroup.com/
__________________________________
Music Credit
Back Home by Ghostrifter Official | https://soundcloud.com/ghostrifter-official
Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com
Creative Commons / Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0)
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

Copyright 2024

Transcript

Frank: 0:17

Peace be upon the family, as we welcome you to another experience of The Family Ties, a prescription for society. I am your co host, Frank Abdul Shahid.

Faridah: 0:28

And I am your co host, Farida Abdul Tawab Brown. Before we get started, don't forget to subscribe so you can stay up to date and get all the latest episodes. So it is a pleasure to be back here with you, our listening audience, and here with you, Frank, on this exciting show. Saturday afternoon. I am actually really, really pleased and honored to be able to introduce our guests, our first guests on today's podcast. And they are very dear and near to me. These are three men from my family, my father, my mother, Qasim Abdul Tawab, my brother, Tariq Abdul Tawab, joining us from Jackson, Mississippi, and my nephew, Ihsan Fonusi, joining us from Richmond, Virginia. So today we promise to have an enlightening and exciting conversation for the show. And we hope to hear feedback from you, our audience on this initial conversation with our guests.

Frank: 1:21

Yes. And I concur with this wonderful opening and introduction that you made for these wonderful group of men. And as we are evolving. This podcast into something very interactive and to actually address all aspects of the family ties and this prescription that we have for society. So it's interesting, it's planned, and it's designed for us to begin this first series, as I like to call it, of having guests on the show. And we want to begin with the men because of society and what society has brought us. Provided for us in the need, we have to respond to society. Men play a very crucial role, a very determinating role in what it is designed to hold society together. Ultimately coming from one idea to multiple ideas, to multiple systems, and to ultimately to a process that the world can benefit in all aspects in every avenue of the life, the whole life that we were designed by, by our creator. I just want to begin this conversation first with just kind of giving some language. I would say to kind of set the tone of the, of the, of the conversation. So when we, when I have men here today, so we just want to say so what is a man, you know, we're in today's time and ultimately these identifications are becoming a little blurred. In a sense, but we just kind of want to, for this conversation, set the tone as to what these, what it means to be a man. So in the dictionary, the word man means an adult male human being. So when we're referencing man in this conversation, we're referencing an adult male human being as a now for grammar purposes for a verb. What is a man? One who is able to manage responsibility, man, one who is able to manage responsibility and what we have learned and have been sensitized to, and that the world has benefited from was our late leader, Imam WD Muhammad, who introduced to us that man is mind, man is mind. So even in the language of the term human being. There is a reference to thinking, to thought, to be able to process, to be able to think about, about your role, about your interactions. So human being in itself suggests a thinking creature. So man does mind now to add development to that and add layers to that, the term father, what is a father, a father, and as a now would be a male parent as a verb, a father would be one who originates institutes. And makes pathways, he is the model, he is the leader, that is what father means in the dictionary that we get from Merriam Webster dictionary as a what man and what father means. So in our history. There's always been an assembly of men. Men have always come together. Men have always come together to decide what's best for society, what's best for themselves, always having to plan for the society for its success. So in our history, you know, I want to reference the, a few of these particular coming together. One would be the Niagara movement in history about men coming together to set a determination. And often it was seen as the beginning of the civil rights. Movement in the early 1900s, there was a Cleveland summit that was held in Cleveland, Ohio. And this is when Muhammad Ali decided that he threw his stance and his membership in the nation of Islam under the honorable Elijah Muhammad to not Enlist in the draft. So because of that, he was hit with financial issues and there were other celebrities such as Jim Brown Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, who decided to come together with other athletes to stand and support him in this type of financial situation. So men coming together to determine what will be best going forward. The Tuskegee Institute for Black Farmers one of our great Booker T. Washington's and his idea of wanting to support black farmers. Having these con these conventions to address the issues of farming, to address the issues of education and all aspects of society. So these are moments in our period in lifetime to, to suggest to us that this is what men do in order to fulfill the role of man. This is what men do. We have to come together. We have to put our minds together, the thinking to address the sensitivities of the community. So, and often those sensitivities. Are the woman men come together to protect the women. So this is hopefully in this episode, we are going to have some dialogue with these great men and have an opportunity to. Listen to them in their periods of their development and give us ideas and give us suggestions and give us their history as to them being men in this society. So I want to welcome you all three, brother Kasim, brother Ihsan and brother Tariq to this wonderful podcast. And I know you guys will add great value. to our listening audience to this podcast.

Faridah: 6:40

What a wonderful context you gave us. So I'd just like to begin with our, my father brother Qasim Abdul Tawab, if you could just give our listening audience a brief introduction of yourself and if you could perhaps speak to the any one of the aspects of the definition of manhood that that brother Frank shared with us.

Quasim: 7:00

Okay, well, assalamu alaykum to everyone. I'm Qasim Abdul Zawab. When I think of the categories of men and fathers, I don't really look to myself. I look to my father and the men who gave me a model of what manhood was about. And so I'm a child of the civil rights era. Came of age in the 1960s, of course, lifted the fifties and the the giants that I saw were people like Benjamin Elijah Mays, Joe Lewis, Willie Mays, and they were all men who were striking by. Their, their character for me was striking by the character. And I should add people like Bud Powell and Miles Davis all of the, we had a whole panoply of heroes within our own community that were first for us in terms of men. So I bought everything in my life has been influenced by them. And of course, the the towering figures of the sixties We're Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and Malcolm X. So all of those people charged me up with the feeling that we, that a man had a lot of work to do because we had a lot of progress to make. So I'll just make that my brief introduction.

Faridah: 8:37

Oh, thank you for that context. I, I think we have a lot to learn and I, I guess I would push back a little bit and say I would add you to that list of, of giants. You may not be known in the, you know, in the main, so to speak, but you certainly are one of those giants from that generation. Next, if we could have an introduction from my dear baby brother, If you will allow me to call you that, Tariq.

Tariq: 9:00

Absolutely. As salamu alaykum. Yes, at 6'6 I rarely get the term baby, so I'll take it and I'll love it. Because it won't happen again. But yes, my name is Tariq Abdul Tawab. I am the son of the illustrious and greed giant in the civil rights movement and in our culture, Qasim Abdul Tawab. Father of six children. of the also illustrious Ehsan on the panel with us, and brother Tafar as, as, as introduced. Briefly, I, I, I mirror my father, you know I, I always used to say when I, whenever someone gave me credit for being a good father or a good man in society And then took away credit from others. I would say, well, if you're going to, if you want to take away credit from men that were not raised with fathers, then don't give me credit for being a strong man, because I didn't read any book. I didn't do anything special. I just did what my father did and it seemed to work out at a very high level in every portion of my life. So, you know, I, being a man was something that was. It was already given, you know, because I was raised by men, my grandfather, my father my uncle and for the meaning that you gave, I'll try, I'll try to be light, right? Not the meaning you gave, but when you're looking at the meaning for me, I've always looked at the verb, And I've always looked at the the definition. So, you know, I look at man and verb, and when you're talking short, you're talking about the ability to operate or to run right. And sure, when someone says man, the equipment man, the front lines man, the tower, right? And then when you look at what a man is, by definition, as you just pointed out, is the male, right? So I tend to look at it as a child of a, of the civil rights movement or a child of a child of the civil rights movement and a child of the age of technology and information, right? Put those two together, right? Where I can Google something I can verify and I can get to information expeditiously. I tend to look at it from what we don't have in that definition. And what immediately jumped out at me before even, You know talking today was that as african american men What is intentionally taken from us is the ability to operate anything in our own community, right? The exact definition of the verb is exactly what is systematically taken from us on a daily basis And i'll just leave that there because that's the the factual side And then when I look at the definition of male you talk about the reproductive option, right? and so in the face of The, the, the, the, the nigger problem, the slave problem, the black problem. Again, these are factual issues that the government of the United States has addressed as ways to get rid of people that may be hostile to this state, right? That are children of slaves. Then you have to look at what's been taken from us. There has been our ability to reproduce. So when you look up male, you see that reproductive portion as a part of the definition of it. Right. So to me, I, I focus on the things that lie within the definition that you all have mentioned. that are have been taken from us. You can talk black codes, you know, are continued to be taken from us. You can talk mass incarceration. You can talk planned parenthood and you can talk a lot of other things. But that's what jumps out at me when we talk about the definition of man, male. I love, I grew up off of man is mind, right? In my generation, I haven't gotten that far to mind yet. Right. Because you have to have the ability to exist and to reproduce. So that's kind of where I'm stuck at in a

Frank: 12:12

good way. The family ties, the prescription for society is manned as mine. And this is the platform that we're using to make sure that we Introducing this concept to the audience who've never heard it before. So that way going forward for them, they won't see a lot of the negativity or the planning, as we may say, of forces that's designed to hold us from having our optimal. Expression, and this will be a pathway for them to see what they can come to their best conclusion. The model, the model humans,

Tariq: 12:41

and I'm looking at it with great anticipation because that word you say ties is the most important part, right? You can have it that you want to tie one in a tie. It doesn't mean that loop is going to connect and both sides come through. So I agree with you a million percent that ties portion. We've got to make sure that as a people, we're up to the point where that tie connects. And those folks that we're reaching out to, and we want to understand man is mine at a point where they can understand it and their president hasn't set them back so far. That that doesn't hit where we want it to, but I love it. Yes, sir.

Faridah: 13:11

And joining the conversation last, but certainly not least, is Ihsan

Ihsaan: 13:16

Fanusi. Assalamu alaikum, everyone. I think that to, to, to join at the end. of a discussion. It sort of benefits you and it disadvantages you in, in, in kind of similar ways. And I think it's sort of fitting for the way that generations work, right? Because being at the end of a generation, you, you got to listen to and absorb all the knowledge from the people who came before you, right? My uncle, brother Tariq and my grandfather, brother Qasim, you know, so I get to benefit from all that knowledge. And even while I'm listening, you know, I'm thinking, all right, let me add this to my response. Let me add that. Because, you know, you naturally benefit from picking that up. But then at the same time, you know, you, you, you have to find a way to make that original, find a way to make that yours. And when my, when Brother Qasim talked about the giants that he looked up to, it really reminded me of the, the phrase, you know essentially you're, we're standing on the shoulders of giants, and that's the only reason that. we were able to reach so high. And I think that that really is a, another part of the definition of man. When we, we think about it, I think everybody really touched on this, but I think just to define it further is that, you know, part of being a man is being a role model, you know, and leaving a legacy for the next generation or for people for to follow, right. So part of being a man or part of being a leader is showing people how to do something, showing people. what it is how they should act, you know, by leading by example, essentially. And so I think that this ties into all of the things that that brother Cosm was talking about with having good character, right? The only real way to transmit that good character is to live it. Right? You can talk about good character all you want, but unless it's something that's in your actions, it's not going to be something that's really that's really embraced. And then likewise, as brother Tariq was talking about, about establishing your own things, you know, operating your own communities, establishing business, establishing life within the community. Again, all of this has to be done in a way where it's, replicable for future generations. So part of being a man, I think, is creating that legacy. And that's something that I think a lot of people look up to when they're trying to establish themselves as their own man.

Frank: 15:51

Absolutely. Wonderful, wonderful response. Wonderful response, brother Issan. Yes.

Faridah: 15:55

So I would just like to jump in there and ask the question and perhaps brother Qasim, you might address this because I think it's in response to something that Tariq brought up. And as well as, and that Ihsan picked up on. And this idea of Tariq mentioned what the, the forces that have existed that have served as, as barriers for men establishing and exerting that power. That vigor and vitality in the community. And I know that you came through the experience of the nation of Islam under the leadership of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. And my understanding of it is that there was a very specific program that was in place at a mindset that said that the responsibility of the men who were you know, picking themselves up from the mud and dusting themselves off. Once they had accepted that responsibility, it was also their responsibility to go back out and begin fishing. And so if you could speak a bit to the rationale and the logic behind that movement that addressed some of those things that Tarek was speaking about in terms of the barriers that have existed in the life of our people, particularly when it comes to manhood.

Quasim: 17:04

I'm going to do a little dodging and fainting here. If that's okay I was talking, what's that about you and me, Mayfield? I love the way Mayfield can fight a fight and he never gets hit

Faridah: 17:15

Mayweather

Quasim: 17:18

Yes, well for me and this is i'm sure to a degree of function just of age Even though I still think i'm 34, but I ain't I always have to stretch out. I'm looking at a much longer time span, certainly than the civil rights movement, as we call it. Certainly than my life. And that's why I love the title of the autobiography of Booker T. Washington, Up From Slavery.

Ihsaan: 17:56

Yes.

Quasim: 17:57

My context is we are slave. We, we, we were. A slave people. He was brought here to be slaved, enslaved, however you put it. And our journey is coming up from there. And to think back to the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and the fruit of Islam. And I always felt, and I think the historians will bear this out, that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was emphasizing a aspect of the up from slavery trail, chill. The Frederick Douglass tale of how we build ourselves from that which is demeaned to that which is valuable. But that was kind of sidetracked under the integrationist push of the civil rights movement, the NAACP, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, et cetera, were pushing between 1954 and 1965. The emphasis was getting in and not so much emphasis on building up ourselves, building up our manhood, protecting our women. That emphasis came mainly from the Nation of Islam, but it spread through everybody through the United States. Particularly in the 60s, the Muhammad Speaks newspaper, which was the voice of this movement. So so I would say that that spirit of fishing, that spirit of trying to unite, of building a black united front, of having all men stand up, that that was a spirit that went long before the honor of Elijah Muhammad and a spirit that is still strong today. But of course, as, as, as Tariq mentioned, it is under threat. We always. I hope that at least a little bit spoke to your point.

Frank: 19:54

Yes. And I think that's a wonderful little level of information to contextualize what the sixties really was and how it helped impact us and progress us going forward. Oftentimes, as we look at. It has history. We tend to take things out of the proper context. We want, we like to isolate things and look at that as the whole picture and fail to see how all of these connectivities, the connectivities of all these events actually help push us forward in this whole process. So in this, in this podcast, what we would like to do is we would like to just stress the emphasis that. You know, the word manage the word man is in the word manage to be able to handle levels of responsibility. We want to ensure that our audience understands that when we speak of man and manhood, we're speaking of the ideal man. We're speaking of the man that is in his greatest picture and his most fulfilling picture and how we make our way. And make pathways, create pathways for us to get to that picture of manhood, because ultimately in that position, it gives life to every other aspect of the community and it builds community life. And it's what connects these ties, create these ties for us to actually build our life. Now there's, you know, in the womb, there are restrictions in the womb. There are challenges in the womb that prevent us from being able to stretch ourselves out as a child. So those nine months, we are confined to a certain posture, a certain position, and we're trying to wrangle for freedom. We're trying to wrangle for better, you know, better expression. But the womb itself is designing us to prepare for what the next steps are. So we don't want to put too much emphasis on what has restricted us. In our movement, but more or less look at it as ways that it helped develop us to be able to handle the next level of responsibility in our lifetime. So brother is saying if you could possibly in your studies as a young man and having that as a history for you, you know, what does that look like as far as. Your grandfather, brother Kasim and his intra interactions in that sixties and that wrangling in the sixties of trying to have our best life and now in the two thousands, you know, what does that look like for you and your generation

Ihsaan: 22:09

for me? I see the past and I see history as it's obviously a way to provide us, you know an understanding of what has worked, what hasn't worked. And I think that's what people often take away from history, but I think something that is less. acknowledged is the fact that history can also give you a sense of identity, right? It can also give you a, a direction, you know, apart from, you know, the practical, this worked, this didn't. It also shows you, I think it's something that It gives you something to connect with and I think a lot of people, especially in our generation, in my generation have been missing, right? Whether it's from not knowing where your family is from, not knowing or not having strong male role models to grow up with. It leaves you very susceptible to the direction of other forces, right? I think there's a reason why a lot of young men look up to their fathers or to their grandfathers, right? Or to their uncles, you know, because that lineage is a source of identity. Like it's in your DNA. Yes. You know, you naturally want to follow the, the people who came before you, you know, your forefathers. And so I think a pro an issue or something that we have to face in our generation is how do we contest with not having those role models available as a lot of people don't. You know, and I think that for me personally, you know, having my grandfather in my life and my father in my life, people who have worked very hard, very diligently in order to establish things within the community it has allowed me to have, I don't think pride is the right word, but I think a sense of knowledge of what I'm trying to do. Who, who am I? You know, and I think that a lot of people who don't have that, who don't have those people in their lives, you know, they could follow their friends, you know, or their peers who might be just as lost as them. Right. And I think, as a, as a younger person, you're always sort of In that stage of trying to determine exactly who you are, because you know, you're not going to be exactly like your parents or your grandparents, but with that, with that link being cut off, being severed, right? As Brother Qasim was talking about, you know, as a people, we were brought here and intentionally severed from All of our heritage, our history in Africa, and that's why the pioneers had to establish something. They had to establish their own culture, their own, you know, support structures, family, their own values. And so in order to take that and, and sort of build upon it, I think that We'll have to make a, a, a strong, we'll have to more strongly value history and value historical figures and value the people who came before us, who tried to make those institutions strong.

Frank: 25:25

So as men, I am named after my father. And as you brother said before, you know, especially about the costume and also Tariq and you two are saying, you know, I, I looked up to my father and my father was, he was a giant to me. He had four other brothers. So, and these guys were all like very muscular, very strong, like strapping men. They, and I don't like to use this term, but I'm gonna use it anyway. Like often people would say he's a man's man. Like they were those type of men, my grandfather, his uncle, they were those types of men. So we. We knew my generation knew the standard was for us to be seen as men. And we also worked very diligently to get their approval because once we got their approval, we knew we would have arrived. We didn't need the world's approval. We just needed their approval. So these are the, these are the ties. These are the family ties that we have that. Somehow another had been weakened and somehow another had been severed as brother Tariq has said, as, as absolutely have been severed. So we want to use this platform to try to bring those ties back together. We want to be able to, to tie them back together and find ways and pathways. So we realized that ultimately it began at home. It began with the immediate family before the world could see us as men. We needed to be men in our own homes, men, meaning leaders. We need to have leadership and basically the state of manhood in the world is basically talking about the state of leadership, you know, comprehensively is leadership, bad leadership. So how do we get ourself back to leadership? So I want to go to brother costume for a second and just kind of get his feelings on, on how that looked for him and how he thinks that we can actually. Bring those ties back together.

Quasim: 27:14

Now, all I want to do is give, as the church folk used to say, a hearty amen. You put your finger on it. When you said we were looking for was our father's approval and approval of the other men, and we didn't really give a tinkers, you know, what about. Oh, the folk. That's right. You named it. You named it. And I'm, I'm going to claim it. Yes, sir.

Frank: 27:43

Yes, sir. So, so I want to, I'm sorry. Go ahead. I,

Faridah: 27:48

I, I just I just have a question on, on that point. And it's something that Tariq brought up earlier. And I don't know if, if you know, you'd like to, if you have ideas about this Tariq and definitely wanting to hear your your your, your position on this daddy. And, and of course, Ihsan, and then maybe even and it has to do with the ties and reaching people. You know, there was a quote, a very well known quote from Frederick Douglass that says, and I'm paraphrasing here, but it's, it's basically something about being easier to, to build strong children than to, to build up broken men, you know? And so the idea being that our strongest position are the, the, the, best way to reach and reform the idea of manhood and, and excellence in humanity would be to start with the boys. But, but then that leaves so I, I just wanted to get you guys, all of you, your sense of your understanding of establishing or reestablishing those family ties, where priorities might be, or even how we might reach those who seem to be. Out of reach. Have you given any thought to that? And any one of you can take that.

Tariq: 28:59

You want to go? I was saying, I'll follow you. I just

Quasim: 29:03

want to say this for the current moment. I think brother Frank and I were talking about another historical moment in a particular aspect or particular location within the African American community. I think Fardy, you wanted to set us up to talk about another aspect, and I didn't address it. You and Tariq, I think, are talking about somebody else, another part of our community, another issue with our community. And the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was reaching, particularly in the 50s, after Minister Malcolm became the The spokesperson and the energy center for that movement was reaching out to the folks who weren't being reached, I think, by the phenomenon that Brother Frank and I were talking about the people who were not getting that kind of strong message. You know, home situation. And so the FOI was known for going out to folks everywhere. Those who were doing well, and those who were not doing well, particularly those were not doing well and inviting them to another picture. And today and this is what I wanted to come to. I think people who are so important today are the people who are taking on, because we've got, we've got a, we've got a situation for whatever A larger and larger number of young men are not in contact with the kind of role models to help them construct constructive lives. And I think that that's what Tariq was speaking of. And so people like Tariq, and I don't think he's gone into where his work is, but he does work where he's, where he is going into those without the model and trying to do something. I'll let him say what it

Tariq: 30:54

is

Quasim: 30:54

that

Tariq: 30:54

he's doing. But it's, thank you, daddy. I, I, I think the, I think the I think you start with, and you know, I try to work back in my head, right? I'm so used to know you all, but you start with where we started with. Right. And, and I think the biggest thing right now, and as San has pointed to it very, very, very, very eloquently is the legacy and legacy is not just something to look at and say, wow, that was great. I think as San pointed at legacy is leaving something to work with, right? So as a son, I have something to work with. And I think that the most important place to start when we're talking about this is what are you leaving the next generation to work with? So my father, who happens to be sitting here, but even if he weren't, he, he, he gave me books, intelligence, information, a lot, a lot of information, a very little amount of opinion, right? And I'm very appreciative of that because it left me when I was then to take the reins and to move forward. I was then left with a lot of information and a very strong opinion. And that's a very great thing. The combination to have, right? So when you start with the quote that Frederick Douglass made, you've got to start there and you've got to look at a problem in order to make that tie, or like my father's mentioning, like the nation of Islam did in order to reach that portion of the society, which I may say, when you're talking black males, we're talking about a majority. So you may want to shift the language a little bit to understand that if we're talking about sustenance, viability, and long term sustainability. The conversation of those that the nation was reaching should be the bigger conversation or the high beams, not the low beams, because this panel is a minority when it comes to black males today, that section is the majority. Even if the numbers are skim. So when you hear a statement by the illustrious Frederick Douglass, who was working with what he had at the time, right? That says it's easy to build strong children than broken men. You have to understand the hints of white supremacy that are even in that, that come from the educational institutions that even our brother Frederick attended, right? And you have to understand that that is the moment for me, that the break that you will not be able to ever tie again, happens the moment you take what is and say that it's done, then you have accepted. The throwing away of an entire generation of people almost and therefore for me you started at a place where a victory is is not Just unlikely a victory is impossible. Now. Let's redraw this landscape which What you're hoping and it's almost comedic to a set you're hoping that a new generation of boys Can look at you erasing a generation of men and somehow, even as we've sat here and said each male on this panel has said that the father that came before them was in some way the conduit for which they found the strength to live in this generation of oppression and attacks. We think that that generation will somehow majestically, magically figure out how to be strong men in society simply because we pay attention to them. While we're throwing their fathers away. Now that's a, that's a jump. Some may say, but it's not. So when we say that a, a, a, a, that a portion of the society is broken, your mistake is okay. Okay. Well, as men, any other society has first put where they are and move from there. When you listen to a statement of that nature, you have to understand what it's saying. It's saying, this is where we are. We can't win. So let's skip two generations and go to the six or seven year olds and hope that the minority of men can dismiss the majority of men and convince these children that they can be men, even though their parents couldn't be. That may seem like a lot to unpack, but all it's doing is going down the actual road we just laid out there. So I think what we've got to start with is to say, okay, someone's broken. At what point do you throw away something of yours that's broken? And at what point does that value play into it? So if you've got an old watch, Frank, from your grandfather, and that watch no longer ticks, are you tossing it in the garage, in the garbage? I would, I would say you probably aren't, right? So let's move from a watch that has some level of value to a person, a human being now, right? So to say a human being is broken to the point of throwing them away and now refocusing on a different piece of equipment and to expect you to be viewed by those that oppress you as men, Since that's the word we're starting with is not in the definition of men that we've talked about. He man worked in Muhammad rest in peace, man is mine. That's failing 1 million%. So I don't think we can start from there because to me, that's an admittance that we are not men. We don't have a mind that can fight what's been done to us. In fact, we're going to grab the white flag, put it in the ground and listen to what we're saying as I close this. The men that we're talking about being broken are generally the men that had no hand. In them being broken, there was no voluntary. They grew into super predatory status. They grew into the reality and the society that we, as men, some of us, not you were saying, but some of us. Were were there. Some of us weren't right. These are the ones we're talking about throwing away. We're talking about judges that right now are sitting in jail for 40 years for admittedly taking hundreds of Young boys and putting them in jail when they did nothing to belong in jail We're talking about aau and bvu coaches by the thousands that have admittedly raped young boys and that have done things to them that Causes them to reach levels of mental insanity that they can't come back from right? That's what we're saying. They can't come back from park we're talking about Children and then to dare think that for people to have this outlook, I'm going to give you my Children and hope. That you can then take these children and have some level of care for them to get them somewhere else I think it's a very very shaky foundation to start on so if we start and and that's I think the magic that Kasim Abdul Tawwab gave me he gave me the information so nobody can take me and say well young man You don't understand absolutely not I do understand, right? And the ability to look at it today, which I hope is saying can take me and make me look like pittance with the way he's able to take this to the next level, right? I have to say that we got to adjust that starting point. Because the ground part, which my father was referencing, I'm on the ground with the majority. I see the losses in there. They're stacking so quickly that if you're looking from that aspect, right? Then the conversation would change. So I think that to change that bar, we would have to say, well, what is broken mean, right? At what point do we throw away what's broken? And at what point do we think that we can throw away the parent and then create a sustainable man, right? Is a good place to start.

Frank: 37:46

Yes. And those are very poignant and very descriptive of our situation currently in our society, but that type of thinking and that type of action in the, in the community. So we were sensitized by Imam WD Muhammad with the term man is mine, but there's another part of that too. The other part of that is that the woman is the womb. The womb of mine. She is the womb for man's mind. So she is the environment for man to have his beginnings, for him to understand what the sensitivity is for him to manage all of life. So he can't manage it by himself. So from that perspective, we go into family life, the man, the woman coming together, married, having children. This is when society starts. This is the beginning of, of society in that step. So as we look forward. We know that looking back, I'm sorry, that that has been compromised. Society itself has compromised that at every turn to try to separate the man from the woman, from the, from the man, from the womb of his own development, his engagement of the world, to be able to provide resources for his family. That has been the scheme from the beginning. So as we identify the scheme and understand that we now have a remedy for the scheme, how do we now process going forward? To be able to reconnect these ties, these ties, these sacred ties that have been severed, how do we reconnect them? So yes, Frederick Douglasson was looking at a situation and identified a situation. That is absolutely true, but it's not absolute. So we've come and we use the man is mine as the prism to look at how Frederick Douglass looked at things. And now we're now sensitized to go forward and realize we need to reconnect these these ties. So I wanted to start with you, brother Tariq, and just ask you really quickly since you are a married father, husband and have children yourself, what was your perspective going forward being married and wanting to have children? And now that you do have children, you know, what adjustments did you make for the idea that you wanted to have to continue this reconnecting of the, of the ties that were created from your father and from his father and you going forward for your Children.

Tariq: 39:59

Yeah, I think that it was just picking up where I talked earlier, it was, you know, it was always very simple to pass down what you were given, you know and then I had the benefit, which I don't want to take lightly of having a A father there to reach out into and reinforce, you know every, every aspect of it. I mean, if your child comes to you with a question, right, you already have the answer that you got from your father, you know, seven times out of 10. And if it's that old elephant song, you know, a million and one questions that you didn't ask your father, I have the benefit of being able to pick up the phone and, you know, and to call and to call my father. I think with my sons, a bit of a shift for me was I grew up in the same musical and social areas, my sons. So though, though, you know, the ties, there was, there's some challenges because the, the, the, the reality in which I lived is not the reality in which my children live. So for me, my father was a giant and it was unchallenged. And, and even now it's unchallenged because it's in my mind for my children. Yeah, I may be a giant, but they can Google something. I said, while I'm saying it and quickly tell me, you know what, daddy, I don't, I don't think that's right. So I'm a different type of giant, you know, I found out 20 years later that my father might've said it was 10 people when it was nine, right? At that point, you can't change that status. So I have a, I think there's, there's a bit more of a difficulty for me because my children will challenge more of what I passed down, right? Because the ties aren't the ties anymore. And that's the reality of what, of what you're implying with Frederick Douglass. The, the problem with living at a different generation is it, it couldn't no longer be right. So what was. Is no longer is. So what you're passing down can no longer be correct. Right. And not by right of your parent being incorrect. For example, if you grew up off of, off of NAACP being cast in a positive light, right, you might have a much more difficult time passing that positivity of the NAACP down to your children who can Google the original founders and see that forward businessmen you know, three were European right wing conservatives. And these were the folks that pushed us towards integration, right? So I'm going to have a three hour conversation where my father was only 10 minutes. He just told me and we kept it moving. I may try to pass down the giants at NAACP and my child say, Hey, hold on a second, daddy. Well, that doesn't make any sense. Look where we are now and look at what they did. Why, why did this happen? So the ties are still there because I have my father there. I'm there and they're there. I think there's just some changes and passing it down, right? Because things have changed and then there's some benefits in passing it down. Because you're of the same social and musical era. So, I could play a rap song from Tupac called Changes to my children and still teach them through that rap song, and their attention is there because they still see Tupac as a social giant. My father might have played me a rap a song from Nat King Cole, and I'm like, yeah, I, you know, half of the song, my father's saying, do you see what just happened? There's nobody singing. He's talking about a musical arrangement. And no, I don't see it at the time, right? Cause I'm listening to the Tupac, right? So it was much harder for my father to get that to me. If any of that makes sense. Yes, I understand. I

Frank: 42:55

want to throw this to Issan really quickly. So Issan is recently a newlywed and congratulations and welcome to the club. You, you definitely add value to that, to that club of married men. And it's a wonderful club. So as you and your beautiful wife are looking forward to establishing your, your life as, as a married couple, and ultimately, as God willing, you guys will start having children, you know, what is the, what is your expectation that you think would be to provide an environment for those children to be able to maintain those ties and for you to actually strengthen the ties with your children to ensure that you're continuing the legacy of those who came before you?

Ihsaan: 43:35

That's a great question, Brother Frank. I think. Before I answer that, I, I thought of something while Brother Tariq was talking before, and It reminds me of, there's this movie that came out a long time ago, or at least for me it was a long time ago, but I don't remember the name of it, but it had Morgan Freeman as the, the star and he was going into a school, you know, it was like an inner city school and all of the, you know, the, the, They tried to make, they made the school like as bad as possible, right? Like people were going through the halls, you know, lean on me,

Frank: 44:13

lean on me. It was lean on me.

Ihsaan: 44:14

Yes. So this is, this is a famous movie and I actually always did not really like them. But the reason why is because, you know, he comes into the school, he's all, you know, hard with the discipline. He's like. The first thing he does is he says, like, he just writes like 30 or like 100 students on a list. And he's like, all these guys are out of here. They're all expelled. Right. And some of them are like, wait, I didn't even, I didn't sell drugs. I didn't do this. He's like, nope, you're gone. Right. So his approach was basically like anybody who is, is not going to contribute. We're just getting them out of here. Yes. We'll deal with the rest of those people are just unsavable. They're unsavable. And so. That's why I always kind of had a mixed, a mixed interpretation of that movie, because I think it goes back to what Brother Tariq was saying in that there's this approach sometimes, and it might be more It might be more of the older generation which thinks this way, that we just sort of throw out all the undesirables, you know, and say, they're not, they're not going, they're, they're done. We can't save them. And I think that, you know, there has to be a little bit more nuance, right? When we talk about how, you know, You know, what people can be saved ultimately, you know, as Muslims, we believe that it's with God, right? The, the, the determination of who will be saved and who won't be saved. So we do have to try a rehabilitative approach in certain, certain areas, but then you also have to balance that with, you know providing for the people who really are striving and doing what they're supposed to and you know, trying to establish community themselves. Thanks, folks. So there is a balance there, but yeah, that just reminded me of that movie and my thoughts on that movie But to answer your question about how how do I plan to when I do become a father establishing? Something a legacy for my children. I think that something that the first thing that comes to my mind is Incline my children towards what's right. Because I think that when you have a love of the good things of things, which are good, that will really inform your decisions throughout your life. So even if at a certain point, right, it comes to the, you come to the reality that you can't control your children, right? Once they get to whatever the age is of. Being their own men or their own women. You're not going to be able to control them. So you're, you're very limited actually in how you can shape them. But I think something that you really do have a good amount of control over is Showing them what is good and making them like certain things, which are good, right? Because when children come out, you know, they really they're really kind of like a blank slate in a lot of ways Like they're interested in whatever you're interested in, right? Like if your father took you to football games and you're just gonna like football, right? Because you know, your dad was all excited to see whatever team he was supporting So you might grow up supporting that same team, right? You can really have a big influence in what your parents love So if you're, it goes again back to being a role model and showing by action, but if you are trying to influence your child, I feel like telling them right and wrong is, is part of it, of course. And you have to do that to keep them safe and to, to, to, to allow them to grow. But also. Make exciting, make, fill them with love, with things, with that, that are good, right? And if you can do that, then I feel like they will naturally figure the rest of things out.

Frank: 47:59

The praises for God, I tell you that and how you just described that was the same thinking that I had when I was married, became married to my wife and we were having a child and my Struggle to determine what would be best for my Children and I felt and I thought and I believed it that I would have to put them around things that are best things that are good and ultimately that will be able to give them discernment to determine that the things that were bad wasn't good for them. So if I gave them the good, they understood that the bad things is something that they don't want to be a part of, or that would be something that just kind of stirred the soul a little bit. As caution. So and I think we need to have more of that approach and more of that determination for our families going forward. These conversations for all family members to determine. We don't have to change the world. We can control what's in our own homes. And if we have a little bit more of a direct involvement with that and the more concerted and specific involvement, I think ultimately the world changes because the world is really just a reflection of what's going on in the home. So but I really appreciate those comments that you gave.

Faridah: 49:06

So if I could just interject here before we have some closing words from Brother Qasim, Abdul Tawwab and Tariq and Ihsan, as we wrap up this episode, I would like to invite all three of you back. We have limited time for each episode, but I would like to invite all three of you back, particularly with respect to the question of ties and even going back to the question of the Frederick Douglass quote. And the reason that I brought that quote up, and I still think it's important and it was an insightful, is that. I don't necessarily look at that quotation as an invitation to discard. I look at that quote as an invitation to take what's referred to in the Qur'an, the scripture of the Muslims, as the aqaba. It's the steep path, the difficult road, which begins in the Qur'an with the invitation to liberate the slave. And so if you and this was the particular question that I had posed both to Brother Qasim as a former member of the Nation of Islam who has intimate knowledge of that experience, and also that he was posing, you know, leaving a question with his son, my brother Tarek, who is doing very important work on the ground in Jackson, Mississippi, and has had this sensitivity his entire life. It is easier to build a strong, strong men when you start with them as children. But the, what the, the quote finishes and what it says is it's more difficult or it's easier than, which just means that the other enterprise. is a challenging one. But men are the ones who step up to the challenge. Believers are the ones who say the road is difficult, but I'm going to embrace it because that's the road that gets the most reward both in this life and the next. So I would like us to return, if you all are willing to return as our guests, to really you know, discuss that in more depth, because I think it's important. And so if you would, I don't know if Frank has something to share before we have each of you make a closing comment. No,

Frank: 51:05

no, the floor

Faridah: 51:06

is there. And please, in your closing comment, please let us know if you will accept our invitation.

Quasim: 51:11

So you're telling me I'm supposed to go first? I'm here, so I will. First of all, I would be most pleased at any time to be with these excellent men and also with the excellent co host Farida Abdul Zawah Brown. And I would just say that I will, you know, give a little historical perspective because there's not a lot for me to say. The men facing the future are here. And I will think. My creation and the creator of the heavens and the earth that I can see these these these men who are doing so much And who can approach problems that I can't even begin to sort out and just say I had something to do with it by doing that, which my father said me to do it. So yeah, I'll be, I'll be delighted to come back if that if that invitation is accepted. Yes, sir.

Faridah: 52:06

All right. Well, Ehsan, if we can have you answer the question and let us know if you'll be willing to join us.

Ihsaan: 52:12

Yeah, I would, I would absolutely like to come back. I mean, we had such a great discussion already in this short amount of time. And so, there's so much more that I'd love to talk about and just listen and hear the other perspectives. So I'm definitely, I definitely want to come back. I feel like I've already learned so much just in this conversation. So yeah, I would definitely accept.

Faridah: 52:37

Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Ihsaan: 52:40

All

Tariq: 52:40

right.

Faridah: 52:40

And Tariq.

Tariq: 52:41

So, very quickly, I'll definitely accept it. I'd be more than happy to come back and speak about it. It's a lot of important facts that have been picked up here that we need to continue to talk about. The most importantly when we make comments about who's doing the right thing and who's doing the wrong thing the continued conversation is are they or are they not? And I'll leave that there till next time.

Faridah: 52:59

All right. Well, that was our those were our guests. We are grateful to you for joining us as the first guest, the inaugural guest, if you will, on the podcast, Family Ties, The Prescription for Society.

Frank: 53:12

So as we will close, we would say the praise is always for God, always. And Farida, we have definitely moved one step closer to Destination Excellence.

Faridah: 53:23

Until next time, let us remain conscious of our creator of the sacred relationship of parent and child, and of the family ties that bind us. Subscribe to the podcast and come back next time for a new episode of The Family Ties

Frank: 53:38

from Frank Abdul Shaheed

Faridah: 53:41

and Farida Abdul

Frank: 53:45

Peace. Peace be upon, be upon

Faridah: 53:49

the family,

53:50

the family.